Sephardic Jew descendants - Tracking of citizenship applications
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Hi All,
Hope you are well.
I am currently on stage 7, awaiting registration since 28/11/2019 from Lisbon Conservatoria. Would anyone have any idea which month is currently being processed in Lisbon.
Thank you and all the best to all!!
@Larina1011, according to CRC of Lisbon “October 2019” is currently being processed . I´ve received this information in the morning.
@AlexandreLS Thank you so much for the information. Hopefully we get to hear something soon :)
Regards,
Hi everyone!
Apologies for my English. My Portuguese isn't great, but I'll give it a go and post a PT version below... First of all, thank you so much for all your posts on this thread. It's been an invaluable resource to help with my application.
Late last year, I received my certificate of Portuguese ancestry from the Comunidade Israelita de Lisboa and, since then, I've been preparing my documents for my application.
I currently have UK citizenship and live in Berlin, Germany. I have a couple of questions before submitting my application that I'd love to get some help with, if possible.
Firstly, I just wanted to check whether the documents that I have are sufficient for the application:
Secondly, I've seen that a number of people here have urgent applications that took a number of months vs. up to 2 years. I understand that we are all in the same waiting game with our applications so I don't want to "jump the queue". But what are the grounds for an urgent application? As a UK citizen in Germany, I'm becoming increasingly concerned that my residency in Germany may be in question in the coming months due to Brexit. Is that potentially grounds for an urgent application? If so, what is the process around that?
Thank you all so much!!
Nathan
Olá a todos!
Peço desculpa pelo meu inglês. O meu português não é fantástico, mas vou tentar e publicar uma versão PT abaixo... Antes de mais, muito obrigado por todos os vossos posts neste tópico. Tem sido um recurso inestimável para ajudar com a minha candidatura.
No final do ano passado, recebi o meu certificado de ascendência portuguesa da Comunidade Israelita de Lisboa e, desde então, tenho vindo a preparar os meus documentos para a minha candidatura.
Actualmente tenho nacionalidade britânica e vivo em Berlim, na Alemanha. Tenho algumas perguntas antes de apresentar a minha candidatura com as quais gostaria de obter alguma ajuda, se possível.
Em primeiro lugar, gostaria apenas de verificar se os documentos de que disponho são suficientes para a candidatura:
Em segundo lugar, vi que algumas pessoas aqui têm pedidos urgentes que demoraram vários meses versus até 2 anos. Compreendo que estamos todos no mesmo jogo de espera com as nossas candidaturas, por isso não quero "saltar a fila". Mas quais são os fundamentos para uma candidatura urgente? Como cidadão do Reino Unido na Alemanha, estou cada vez mais preocupado com a possibilidade de a minha residência na Alemanha estar em causa nos próximos meses devido ao Brexit. Será isso um motivo potencial para um pedido urgente? Em caso afirmativo, qual é o processo em torno disso?
Muito obrigado a todos!!
Nathan
@nathanedavis1 you have all the documents you need. You don't need proof of residency in Germany (not relevant) or a letter to the ministry of justice. All the others look good and sufficient. Regarding urgency, I'm not sure it is justified, do you have proof of what will happen to you if you do not get the citizenship by a given date or an urgent need for citizenship (e.g. job offer conditional on EU citizenship, health or human rights situation)? I'm currently in UK and it is understood both UK and EU vouched to provide settlement schemes for UK/EU citizens, however this is not guaranteed. You might want to wait until the June deadline to see if there is more clear evidence that a "no deal" scenario would happen and what guidance Germany published for UK citizens living there. If EU/Germany says that they will kick you out then for sure that is good grounds for justifying urgency in your request. That's my opinion but I don't think there is any way to know as urgency guidelines are discretionary and not published anywhere.
Hi nathanedavis1,
The following, some considerations that can help you:
It is required that documents issued abroad in order to be held as valid must be duly legalized and accompanied by an official translation into Portuguese (when they are not issued in that language).
The official translation may be done: by a sworn translator, duly authorised or by any diplomatic representation of the Portuguese State abroad.
Let’s follow your check list:
· Proof of German residency (Anmeldung) - original document in German + certified translation to Portuguese >> OK
· Certificate of good conduct for Germany, UK, and EU - original, Apostilled, document in German + certified translation to Portuguese >> OK
· Birth certificate - original, Apostilled, in English (not translated) >> NOT OK. Your Birth certificate must be apostilled and translated to Portuguese. No problem if you send both.
Please, take a look at https://www.irn.mj.pt/IRN/sections/irn/a_registral/registos-centrais/docs-da-nacionalidade/aquisicao/n/aquisicao-da8318/
“... Certidão do registo de nascimento, se possível, de cópia integral e emitida por fotocópia, devidamente legalizada e acompanhada de tradução, se escrita em língua estrangeira.”
"... Birth registration certificate, if possible, a fully photocopy, duly legalized and accompanied by translation, if written in a foreign language."
· Sephardic ancestry certificate from Comunidade Israelita de Lisboa - original document in Portuguese >> OK
· Passport photocopy (photocopy conducted and signed in the Portuguese embassy, Berlin) >> OK
· Application form (signed in the Portuguese embassy, Berlin) >> OK
· Letter to ministry of justice (signed in the Portuguese embassy, Berlin) >>>>> OK
I hope I was able to help you.
Best regards.
I ask for opinions and advice.
Station - ACP (Porto), my stage from February 2023 - 3 brown. And still no movement.
I don’t know Portuguese)) I would like to write a request to clarify the status of my case.
Has anyone had experience with such clarification?
I found the email address and the person in charge:
Is this correct data?
Thank you!
Peço opiniões e conselhos.
Estação - ACP (Porto), minha etapa de fevereiro de 2023 - 3 marrons. E ainda nenhum movimento.
Não sei português)) Gostaria de escrever um pedido para esclarecer o andamento do meu caso.
Alguém já teve experiência com esse esclarecimento?
Encontrei o endereço de e-mail e o responsável:
Esses dados estão corretos?
Obrigado!
@Vallen
Since you posted on the Portuguese nationality through Jewish heritage, I assume that you based your application on that specific article of the law.
These processes take years and years and it is absolutely normal to see no movement in the process in the first or second year.
All you can do is wait and be patient.
Writing to them will simply get you an automated response, "we are busy and processes are handled in chronological order."
@eduardo_augusto
I know the process is long.
But I was confused that according to statistics, stage 3 is the fastest.
Ok, I'm patiently waiting for a successful ending))
Obrigado!
@Vallen Stage 3 was fast some time ago, but not anymore. Nowadays it is impossible to predict especially if you applied in 2022 and 2023, which seems to be your case. The applications that we have some predictability are those from 2021 until the beginning of 2022. In order to keep some track I suggest following Whatsapp and Facebook groups related to Art. 6º n.º 7.
@Vallen By the way, Porto is approving (stage 6 green) processes that were entered in February 2022. It takes months to analyze just one month of applications. Lisboa is different. I believe they are in February 2021.
@fnando
Documents in ACP (Porto) - January 2022.
Stages 2 and 3 - end of February 2023.
I subscribed to FB, thank you.
What is this WhatsApp group?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Documentos na ACP (Porto) - Janeiro de 2022.
Etapas 2 e 3 – final de fevereiro de 2023.
Eu me inscrevi no FB, obrigado.
O que é esse grupo de WhatsApp?
@Vallen
Ok. If your process is from January 2022, I think you must be pretty close to stage 4 by now.
Here is the WhatsApp group of stage 4: [removed]
@fnando @gmaferreira
Obrigado!
Hello from New York, and apologies for only knowing English :)
I wonder if anyone can give me an update based on their experience about approximately when I could expect to go from Brown Ball 7 to Green Ball 7 ?
My application was at Green Ball 1 in July 2022.
It entered Brown Ball 7 on April 2023.
I have been waiting since then. An
@sheepsheadnyc unfortunately we don’t know when the brown ball is going to turn Green. I’m also waiting for a long time, since may 2023, we are very confused with the information that we have received from Portugal. They supposed to update at least 23.000 process to the Green ball this month, but nothing yet! We don’t know approximately how many months is going to take.
@sheepsheadnyc ,
I don't have this experience myself, but according to forum comments it's taking from 7 months to 1 year. But there are cases that took more than 1 year.
The expectation for 2024 is that with the implementation of the new automated platform these deadlines will decrease. Let's wait.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/portugal-launches-new-platform-to-simplify-procedures-for-acquiring-nationality/
@sheepsheadnyc hard to estimate specially nowadays cuz Portuguese Authorities are developing a system that will automate it. If it true as they're saying it, it can happen on Feb this year. If it doesn't realize, it will follow the usual process that is: Porto transfer your process to a smaller Conservatoria that will issue your document.
Last reliable data that we have is listed on the third row below. It becames 7 brown on Jan 2023 and was transferred to Anadia on Dec 2023, i.e. at least a year. A BIG red-flag is that this date is increasing A LOT as you can see by comparing 3rd to the 1st and 2nd rows. After being transfered, it will depend on which smaller conservatoria that will take care of your process.
This discussion is quite frequent on this forum, feel free to navigate through it using the google translate that you can collect further information.
Best.
Hi everyone,
I tried my luck by paying 10 euros before. and I received an e-mail stating that my seat was not available yet and asked for my bank details so that they could refund my money. I did not respond to this e-mail.
I tried my luck by depositing 10 euros again 2 days ago, but I have not received a positive or negative response yet. My father always says that news that doesn't come is good news. I will inform the forum about developments soon.. By the way, I have been on the brown 7th ball since May 2023.
Personally, I think the most important thing is that you have already been approved and you will soon have your Portuguese certificate in hand
I am reporting a very quick update.
My birth certificate was delivered to me today.
When I check the system I still see the brown ball 7.
I suggest you pay 10 euros and try your luck.
Automatically given by the system as of May 11.
thanks and good luck to everyone. this forum helped me a lot..
Hello, my process is from Aug/2022 (323 - Art. 6º n.º 7 - Naturalização) when my documents were submitted just right before the new requirements. Does anybody know if the recepit of the request is being handled by the registry office CRC? I have no news yet from my lawyer and this whole thing seems to be taking ages.
@borbolla I'm exactly like you, my process is from Aug/2022, and it's still on the first step "Foi Recebido". Fingers crossed that we'll get some update yet this year.
@bfernandes @borbolla Do not believe that there will be any changes this year to the processes delivered in August 2022 in Porto. They will try to hold off on the analysis as much as possible until the final regulation of the latest amendment to the law comes out. Because there will probably be judicialization of processes initiated after August 2022 and the conservatories do not want to run the risk of not having the law regulated.
@magriso I am at a similar situation as you. My nationalization process is 2020, I requested a birth certificate and received it. The birth certificate process has its own number and has a 2024 date. In the birth certificate itself, there is a sentence referring to the original 2020 nationalization process saying that there is an "averbamento" showing that I acquired Portuguese nationality in June of last year. That said, the 7th ball still shows brown, which tells me that maybe the fact I have the birth certificate doesn't mean my original nationality process was completed. I'm not sure what that means for now on.
1) Can I request a NIF at this point, even with the 7th ball not green yet?
2) Could I start a new procedure for my wife since I "acquired Portuguese nationality" even though the Conservatoria has not provided the registo yet?
3) If an emergency situation arises and I need help from the Portuguese consulate, can I request it? In other words, do I count as a citizen now or...?
Those are my main doubts, I hope someone here can help clarify.
@mordak , If your birth certificate ("Assento de Nascimento") has already been issued (and if I understand correctly, you already have it with you), congratulations: you are already a Portuguese citizen. With this document, you can request your identity card ("Cartão Cidadão") and passport. Additionally, you can obtain a NIF (Número de Identificação Fiscal). Please note that even non-nationals can get NIFs in certain cases, but since you are already a citizen, you must get it as a Portuguese national.
The infamous "site das bolinhas" ("little balls' site" in free and tongue-in-cheek translation) is not up to date, and it's only a way for you to check the state of your request. If the certificate was already issued, forget the site. 😊 And congrats!
@andrelas Yay! Yes, everything you said has happened. The birth certificate was issued and I have it with me (even if it's basically a lot of **** with mine and my parents's names haha). I guess I need to schedule a stop at a Loja do Cidadão when I visit Portugal in a month or so. Maravilha!
@PH86 and @bfernandes thanks for your comments. I was told by my lawyer that moving from ball 1 to ball may take almost three years and that the different changes of the law were applicable for the ones who submitted on/after Sept 2022.
Fingers crossed anyway and hoping for the best.
@mordak hello, from my personal experience. Yea you can have NIF and even a NISS number before your citizenship, I had both, and people that naturalize as residents (after 5 years living here in Portugal) do as well.
After you have your Assento de Nascimento and want to get a Cartao de Cidadao, take both NIF and NISS papers with you to the consulate or IRN, and tell them you already have those infornations.
When your CC is issued the information on Portal das Financas and Seguranca Social is updated with the information of your Cartão.
I had both as brazilian and they are now on my CC as portuguese citizen.